Becoming AzaZealous: Reclaiming Your Sovereignty on the Spiritual Path – An Interview with Dr. Papa-yoni Das

What happens when a spiritual awakening doesn’t arrive as bliss—but as a rupture that shatters reality itself?

For Dr. Papa-yoni Das, what began as a sudden spiritual emergency at eighteen became the catalyst for a lifelong journey into metaphysics, creativity, and spiritual sovereignty. From a Kundalini awakening that upended his college years to years of deep study, embodied practice, and direct engagement with the unseen realms, Papa-yoni’s path was anything but gentle—yet profoundly transformative.

In this conversation, Papa-yoni shares how a misunderstood awakening reshaped his life, why creativity and self-expression are sacred acts of healing, and how working consciously with subtle energies can help individuals reclaim agency over their spiritual evolution. With wisdom forged through lived experience, Papa-yoni invites us to question inherited beliefs, embrace inner authority, and remember that true spirituality begins with presence, courage, and choice. Continue reading or listen in by subscribing for free on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Amazon Music, or YouTube to explore Dr. Papa-yoni Das’ expansive and unconventional path.

Papa-yoni, it is great to see you. Thanks for joining us.

Dr. Papa-yoni Das: It’s great to be here. Thank you for having me.

I want to hear about what you call a spiritual emergency that you had at the age of 18. Where were you living? What was life all about for you? What happened?

Dr. Papa-yoni Das: It was my first year of college. I was living in Chicago at the time. I’m originally from Gary, Indiana, so it was really just a hop, skip, and a jump from my hometown.

A lot of incredible athletes come out of Gary, Indiana. I don’t know what it is about that city, but…

Dr. Papa-yoni Das: Yeah, something in the water. We’ve got some of the best water in the country.

At that time, I was an acting major at DePaul University’s theater school. And one day, I had what I now understand to be a Kundalini awakening.

Back then, I knew nothing about chakras. I knew nothing about Kundalini. It’s only in hindsight—through my research, my studies, and working through what at the time felt like a real ordeal—that I was able to understand what was happening.

Where were you when this happened?

Dr. Papa-yoni Das: It started while I was visiting with some classmates. It was the first week—school hadn’t even started yet. Classes hadn’t begun. We were just hanging out, and it came on. I don’t know if you want me to go into detail.

Tell us everything!

Dr. Papa-yoni Das: Okay. Some people have a certain predisposition to substances. For me, it was my first time trying marijuana. Smoking cannabis triggered something very intense and very frightening.

That’s actually why, when I talk to people now—especially those who buy my Kundalini Keys—I tell them not to wear them while under the influence of cannabis, because both can stimulate Kundalini energy. But at the time, I knew none of this.

I managed to get back to my dorm room, but while I was still out with my friends, everything started to feel unreal. The world felt like a puppet world, and people felt like puppets. What Western medicine calls derealization disorder—that’s what I was experiencing.

Everything I heard felt dark and distorted. One moment that really stands out: my roommate and I were walking back to the dorm, and he said, “We’re gonna run this school.” But what I heard was, “We should run into the street.” That kind of distortion was happening constantly. It was terrifying.

I knew I needed to get to a safe space—a controlled environment—so when I finally got into my dorm room and was alone, I sat on the bed.

Physiologically, though—what was happening?

Dr. Papa-yoni Das: I was sitting cross-legged on the bed, but I kept getting up and walking around. I was reality-testing—checking objects I had left in certain places, making sure the environment stayed stable and real, that things weren’t changing on their own.

Then I felt this intense surge of heat. It started in my groin and moved straight up my central column—what I now know as the sushumna nadi. It surged all the way up through the center of my body. It was incredibly hot.

I felt it move into my chest, into my throat—what I now understand as the throat chakra—and then into my third eye. It stopped at the base of my skull and began radiating throughout my entire head. I remember thinking, Oh my God, what is happening to me?

I jumped into the shower and turned on the cold water. I had never taken a cold shower before in my life, but I needed to interrupt whatever was happening. I was trying to wake myself out of it.

The residual effects of that Kundalini awakening lasted the entire first quarter of my college career. It wasn’t as extreme as that first night, but it was deeply unsettling.

I went through what Western medicine calls depersonalization disorder. My motor skills were off. If I wanted to reach into my pocket to grab something, I had to concentrate intensely just to do it. My kinesthetic responses were heightened to an extreme degree.

If someone brushed up against me, I would feel it for five minutes afterward. If five people brushed past me—say, at a party—I’d go into full sensory overload. I was hyper-aware of everything.

Did you go to the doctor? Did you talk to people? What happened?

Dr. Papa-yoni Das: No, I didn’t go to the doctor specifically for what I was experiencing spiritually. I went to a doctor because I was having pain in my appendix area. While I was there, they had me take a test, and the result came back saying I had severe depression.

They tried to put me on antidepressants. At the time, they were misreading what was actually a depersonalization and derealization disorder as depression. I didn’t take the medication right away. I waited until winter break and told myself, If there’s ever a time to follow their advice, this is it.

So I took the antidepressants—and I didn’t sleep for two weeks straight. And when you don’t sleep for two weeks, everything becomes exacerbated. Whatever issues you’re already dealing with get amplified.

Two days after winter break ended, my family took me to the hospital for a prolonged stay. I was there for about two weeks. Because of that, I had to take a year off from school—otherwise, I would have failed. When I eventually returned, I had to start right where I’d left off.

That year off gave me time to acclimate to the heightened sensory experiences that had begun to surface. A lot was happening. My awareness was wide open. I had experiences with the jinn—it was a lot.
Have I answered your question?

So your family was approaching this from a mental health perspective.

Dr. Papa-yoni Das: Yes.

And you went into a mental health hospital for a couple of weeks?

Dr. Papa-yoni Das: Yes.

So you come out of the hospital, how do you begin to see this experience as more of a spiritual awakening rather than a mental health breakdown? Or maybe it was both.

Dr. Papa-yoni Das: For me, it was spiritual the entire time. I was telling my family throughout that whole quarter that something was wrong, that something was off. But they didn’t really want to hear it.

They didn’t get me help until it reached a point where they couldn’t ignore it anymore. I can even talk about the day I was admitted—nothing bad happened—but it had become impossible to dismiss what was going on with me.

Did you have a spiritual upbringing before this that informed any of these experiences?

Dr. Papa-yoni Das: Not at all. I didn’t have a spiritual upbringing that explained or informed these experiences.
What I will say is that what predisposed me to this Kundalini awakening—and what I’ve come to understand since then—was actually a zar possession, so to speak.

A big part of that had to do with my inclination toward androgyny. I wore uniforms throughout high school, and when I graduated, I suddenly had freedom of expression. I started wearing all kinds of clothes, many of them from the women’s department. I liked makeup and began experimenting with it. Merging the masculine and the feminine at that very pivotal age—18, entering a new world—created the perfect storm.

Especially when you add cannabis into the mix, that combination left me energetically open to a zar possession.

When you say “zar,” could you explain what you mean? How do you spell it, and what does it mean?

Dr. Papa-yoni Das: Zar is similar to a jinn. So when I say zar possession, I’m talking about a type of jinn possession. I’m explaining how it occurred—how it unfolded over time in my life.

In many ways, it felt predestined. It was simply how things came together. That was my first real interaction with the world of the jinn and the astral plane—through androgyny, substances, and timing all colliding. So yes, it was a zar possession, and that’s what triggered the Kundalini awakening.

Okay. And I know you wrote a whole article on jinn in the latest issue of Awakened Magazine, our special print edition. So “jinn” and “zar” are interchangeable terms?

Dr. Papa-yoni Das: Yes.

Help educate those of us who are just learning about this. What is a jinn, and what does it mean to be possessed by one?

Dr. Papa-yoni Das: A jinn is an entity of the astral plane. Jinn regulate our energetic body—the chakras, the nadis, the entire subtle system. They interact with us on that energetic level.

Most people would say that jinn are evil. Most would say that Zar are evil. But there are zar ceremonies specifically for healing and working with the zar. One important thing to understand is that you can’t really get rid of a zar. You can’t banish it. You can only appease it. You can only work with it. Once it’s there, it’s with you for the rest of your life.

It’s similar to what’s called a qareen, which means “constant companion.” A qarin is a jinn that a person is born with. In that tradition, everyone is born with a qarin—everyone has a jinn assigned to them at birth.

Beyond that, many jinn interact with us on the energetic plane. I’ve seen them. I consciously interact with them. Ultimately, they regulate our energetic bodies.

You wrote in the article that culturally, people can misconstrue this as a genie, like a genie in a bottle. Is that a cultural way of misrepresenting this? Is that right?

Dr. Papa-yoni Das: Yes, that’s right. A lot of that comes from Disney—Aladdin and that whole portrayal. It’s really an anglicized version of the word jinn. The correct term is jinn, and some people spell it djinn, which is much closer and more accurate than “genie.”

Every culture has its own way of understanding and naming jinn, by the way. In Europe, for example, they’re often called elves. But these are jinn. There’s no real difference—it’s cultural. Just different language, different imagery, different storytelling traditions.

I’m going to bounce around a bit here. Please know these questions come from curiosity—that’s always what I bring to the table. The way you’re presenting yourself, even today, and when I’ve seen you in person—if I were ignorant, which I am—I might say, “Oh my gosh, he looks like a genie.”

Dr. Papa-yoni Das: I love that. I love that you own the ignorance. The one who says they know everything knows nothing. The one who says they know nothing has the opportunity to learn.

So we’ll get into your full story because I want to hear how all of this has unfolded for you. But even now, in this season of life, the way you choose to dress—what does that mean to you? What are you communicating through your dress?

Dr. Papa-yoni Das: I’m communicating androgyny. I’m communicating the merging of the masculine and the feminine—that union. I’m also communicating freedom, autonomy, sovereignty, and regality. I think it looks regal.

And I always wear a peacock on my third eye – that’s for Tausi Devi—we’ll definitely get into that.

What do you call what’s on your head?

Dr. Papa-yoni Das: I call it a turban.

It looks great. Do you make those yourself, or do you purchase them? I know you have quite a few.

Dr. Papa-yoni Das: I do have quite a few, but I don’t make them. I make neither the turban nor the brooch—though that could be something I look into in the future. People have suggested that.

Where do you purchase them?

Dr. Papa-yoni Das: The brooches, I collect from all over. Some are very special collector’s pieces. There’s a designer named Nolan Miller who’s made some beautiful peacock brooches—some of them a hundred dollars or more. But I really choose the ones that resonate with me. I keep the pieces that feel aligned.

Do you dress in this regal fashion all the time?

Dr. Papa-yoni Das: All the time. Even at the gym.

You go to the gym with a turban on?

Dr. Papa-yoni Das: Yes—unless I’m doing something where it interferes with the back of my head. If I’m on chest day, doing bench work, I can’t have it too bulky because I don’t want to mess up my neck alignment. But typically, yes, I go just like this.

I won’t usually wear a big, formal piece like this at the gym. I’ll wear something simpler—what I’d call a kurta or a tunic. That’s really what it was designed for.

And what kind of response do you get? I mean, you’re a big, muscular guy, so I doubt people are going to mock you. If I walked in there, they’d probably be like, “Who is this weirdo?”

Dr. Papa-yoni Das: The response is generally very positive. Even big, muscle-bound guys respect it. People respect authenticity. They respect it when they see you living authentically, expressing yourself—especially when it’s different—and they can tell you’re putting yourself in a vulnerable position.

For me, it goes back to the merging of dualities. I’m strong. I’m fit. So for me to voluntarily place myself in what could be seen as a compromising position—taking on what many people label as “weaker”—I’m intentionally breaking those stereotypes.

I’m breaking the idea that the feminine is weak. I’m accepting it. I’m promoting it. And people really do appreciate that.

I’ve got to tell you—I’m jealous. Not necessarily of this particular style that you embody, but of the unabashed embodiment of who you are. The creativity. A lot of what you’re expressing has a spiritual element, yes—but it’s also a massive amount of creativity that you’re allowing to flow through you, breaking norms. I’m jealous. It’s beautiful. Absolutely beautiful.

Dr. Papa-yoni Das: Thank you, and you’re doing your thing too. You’re expressing creatively, and that’s an imperative—a human imperative—to express and expand through our expressions. Because if you don’t—and I’ve experienced this myself—when expression is suppressed or repressed, it can make you ill.

So let me bring us back—because we’ve wandered a bit—how did you begin cultivating your gifts and educating yourself? How did this unfold into where you are today?

Dr. Papa-yoni Das: After my spiritual emergency—and I do call it that—I got the term from Stanislav Grof’s work, The Stormy Search for the Self. He also has a book literally called Spiritual Emergency.

Unlike a spiritual emergency, which is gradual, loving, light-filled, and flowy, this was none of those things. It was jarring, alarming, and frightening. I wouldn’t change it, because it made me who I am today. It was my catalyst.

After that, I began having all of these extrasensory experiences, and I honestly stopped caring about acting. That’s a big thing to say, because acting was everything to me in high school. It’s what kept me alive. It’s how I got into a top-ten acting school.

Had my spiritual emergency not happened, I’d probably be in Hollywood—big name, lots of money, very famous. And honestly? I’d probably be an asshole. I didn’t yet have a sense of responsibility for the energy or the messages I was putting out on stage.

At the time, I was also doing stand-up comedy. I was making music. The biggest music video I’ve ever done is called Twerk Team. It was funny—people loved it. And joy and laughter are valuable. But I started asking myself, Is this really bringing anything deeper into the world?

I felt a strong pull to go deeper. To learn more.

That’s when I began studying the metaphysical sciences. I attended the University of Sedona, where I earned my PhD in Conscious-Centered Living. I studied shamanism at the Life Force Arts Center in Chicago and earned certification in shamanic practice.

But there was one experience—one event—that really let me know this was all real. I had always believed in the concept of spirits, but I hadn’t yet had direct, undeniable contact. Would you like to hear that story?

Of course. That’s why we’re here.

Dr. Papa-yoni Das: This goes back to my androgyny again. I found a group in Chicago called the Center on Halsted, located in Lakeview, in the neighborhood known as Boystown—the heart of Chicago’s gay community.

The Center on Halsted was a place for LGBTQIA+ youth to gather, eat, and feel safe. Many of them had been displaced, marginalized, or disenfranchised. I went there simply to meet other androgynous people, other pansexual people.

One day, I was listening to music on my headphones and lying on a couch. Suddenly, I began feeling vibrations all over my body. It was like every atom was tingling. In my ears, I heard static—like shifting between radio stations.

I closed my eyes. And when I did, I could still see everything that had been there before—but more. I saw additional people who hadn’t been there physically. To test it, I opened my eyes. The extra people were gone.

I closed my eyes again. They were back.

Someone was standing at my feet. She appeared female, with a crowd behind her. She said, “What did you guys do to Vincent?”—that’s my government name. It wasn’t accusatory. It was playful, like, What did you all do to Vincent?

She walked over, knelt beside me, and brought her face very close to mine. I could feel the breath from her nostrils on my neck. Then she kissed me right here.

My immediate thought was, Oh no—one of these dudes just kissed me. So I opened my eyes. No one was there.

I closed my eyes again—and this time, everything was gone.

What I understand now is that there’s a psychic receptivity point—a kind of valve. If it’s stimulated, perception can open or close. I believe that’s what she did. She closed it.

At that time, I was already going through so much during my year off from school—so much heightened psychic awareness. I believe she closed it intentionally to protect me.

My goodness. At what point, as you were going through this educational process, did you sense that you were called to help others in this way? Was it gradual—like, “Oh, I can start helping people”—or was there a specific moment where you felt a calling?

Dr. Papa-yoni Das: It was a calling. It happened after I started making what I call thingamajigs for myself—objects I used to affect change, to do magic. Once people saw what I was doing, they started asking for their own.
“Can you make me something to manifest a boyfriend?”
“Can you make me something to manifest a job?”
Things like that.

Tell people what thingamajigs are—and do you have some with you?

Dr. Papa-yoni Das: So thingamajig is a term I’ve kind of adapted. I didn’t invent the word itself, but for me it’s short for a thing of magic. It’s a talisman. It’s an amulet. It’s an object that can be charged to help you manifest something into your life—or remove something from your life.

I’ll show you one of the very first thingamajigs I ever made, because this is what really put me on the path.

This piece is composed of three different parts. I’ll try not to spill what’s inside. You see how the bottom comes off?

The middle piece is actually a ring. And the top piece—these three parts were found on different days, in different places, while I was metal detecting. I see them as gifts from the jinn world.

I can find lost things—whether they’re physical objects or lost information, especially occult knowledge. It comes to me. Something told me to keep these three random items. The ring, sure, someone might naturally keep. But the other two were basically junk. Still, something said, Keep them. They’ll come in handy.

Later, I was guided to put the three pieces together. There’s no glue, no welding—they just screw together. And inside—That sound you hear is gold. Those are gold nuggets. This piece is used to imbue one’s auric field with golden flecks for purity—to cleanse the auric field.

This was one of the very first thingamajigs I made. Originally, it didn’t look like this—I gold-leafed it. I also placed an Indian Head 1895 penny inside.

So you started making these thingamajigs, and then people began asking for custom ones.

Dr. Papa-yoni Das: Yes. And there was one real game-changer. When I was living in New Orleans, my cousin asked me to make something with a snake motif. At the time, my girlfriend said, “Why don’t you record yourself making it?”

So I did. I recorded the process and posted it—and that’s when people really started ordering.

What I made for him was a skeleton key with two snakes, like the caduceus—a central staff with two intertwined snakes, the symbol associated with medicine. Snakes have always represented healing, health, and wisdom.

What came out of that is this.
This is a pure silver Kundalini key—made entirely of silver. I don’t know if you can see it clearly, but I’m wearing one too.

It has seven crystals—one for each chakra. This piece is worn to balance all the chakras and bring the entire auric field into harmony.

Do you personally make these—do you work with a metalsmithing professional, or is this something you do at home?

Dr. Papa-yoni Das: I do this at home. I handcraft them myself. And it takes a lot—it’s painstaking work.
I don’t know if you can see my hands, but those marks are from drilling holes and burns from handwork. I can’t use standard tools because the work is so delicate. I use precious metal clay, which is very difficult to work with. If you drop it—even slightly—it will break.

This is another Kundalini key, specifically for the root chakra.

And the top—because I’ve looked at your website—what is the piece that comes over the top? The red part. Is that silver or leather?

Dr. Papa-yoni Das: The red part is polymer clay. A lot of people think it’s leather because of the way I texture it, but it’s clay—and it’s very durable.

All of these pieces are charged. I craft them, and then I energetically charge them. I have pieces designed for specific chakras—each chakra has its own—and then there are the silver ones that work more holistically.

Let me show you another one. This piece is for working with the inner child. 

So it’s like a key, and those are crystals hanging down?

Dr. Papa-yoni Das: Yes, those are crystals. This piece incorporates organite elements—crystals, a small heart, and the key itself. This one is specifically for inner-child work: reconciling the past and integrating the parts of ourselves that were lost through trauma.

And you also have others that feel more like found-object pieces. Do you have one of those?

Dr. Papa-yoni Das: Yes. Here’s one.

And what do you call this?

Dr. Papa-yoni Das: On my website, it may have a slightly different name, but I like to call this one The Angel of Renewal.

This piece is one of a kind. The others I’ve shown you—there are multiple versions of those. But this one can’t be replicated. That’s why, in my opinion, the found-object pieces are especially powerful. They carry a very specific, unrepeatable energy.

And what would someone do with this if they purchased it?

Dr. Papa-yoni Das: This is something you’d keep on an altar or in your living space. It’s meant to attract a particular quality of energy—renewal. Ever-renewing energy—into your home and into your field.

Beautiful. So I’ve seen you at several events and expos. Where do you go, and when you’re there, what are you offering?

Dr. Papa-yoni Das: I’ll be at the Conscious Life Expo. I’ll also be at the Sedona Ascension Retreat, and I love participating in channel panels as well. I’ll be doing a larger tour out west. Beyond that, I do smaller markets, and I’ve been working consistently at Savannah Rocks.

What is Savannah Rocks, and what can people experience there with you?

Dr. Papa-yoni Das: Savannah Rocks is a crystal shop in Savannah, Georgia. They sell crystals and related items, and they wanted to branch more deeply into the metaphysical side of things—that’s when they brought me on.

They have practitioners there as well, including a medium and a crystal healer. I read tarot there, and I also sell my thingamajigs in the shop.

I want to ask you about your name—Papa-yoni Das. What does it mean? When did you take that name on, and why?

Dr. Papa-yoni Das: I was very deeply involved with the Hare Krishna movement at one point. I stayed at the temple often and almost became initiated. I was chanting sixteen rounds a day and following the four regulative principles—no meat eating, no illicit sex, no gambling, no intoxication. I was fully immersed.

Eventually, though, I began learning things about the founder of the Hare Krishna movement in the West—racist statements, sexist and misogynistic beliefs—and that didn’t sit right with me.

Papa-yoni is a term used in some Vedic texts. Papa means sin, and yoni refers to the female anatomy. Together, papa-yoni means “one born of sin,” and it traditionally refers to someone believed to have little capacity for spiritual advancement.

I chose to reclaim that term—not because it was my culture to reclaim, but in the same way marginalized words are sometimes reclaimed. Das means servant. So Papa-yoni Das means “servant to those born of inauspicious circumstances.”

But ultimately, I don’t believe anyone is papa. No one is lesser. We all have the divine within us. Still, in the Hare Krishna tradition, there’s a teaching that you don’t aim to be the servant of God directly—you aim to be the servant of the servant of the servant.

So Papa-yoni Das represents taking the lowest position: servant to the servant, to the lowest of servants.

How does that play out in your life? How do you embody that?

Dr. Papa-yoni Das: Last year—hopefully again this year—my partner and I went caroling in a hospital, singing Christmas songs for patients.

Beyond that, I’m very vocal. I speak up. I’m a firebrand on social media, and that has gotten me into trouble—but I’m okay with that. When I see people being bullied, marginalized, or attacked, I don’t stay silent.

I speak truth to power. I study deeply, and I share what I learn. I’m willing to put my name and reputation on the line to defend people who can’t defend themselves.

I’m curious about the name of what you might call your ministry—AZA-Zealous Outreach. Where does that name come from?

Dr. Papa-yoni Das: The root of that name is Azazel. I’ve created several offshoots from it—Zealous are those who follow the practice within my ministry, which I call the Azazel Tree.

To understand Azazel, we need to start with Judaism. On Yom Kippur, the Day of Atonement, one goat is sacrificed to Yahweh, and a second goat—the scapegoat—is sent into the wilderness to carry away the sins of the people. That goat is sent to Azazel.

That concept reminds me of Jesus—not to sound sacrilegious—but the idea of someone bearing the sins of others. Azazel is often portrayed as evil, but I believe that’s a misunderstanding.

Azazel is the Peacock Angel—also known as Melek Taus or Tausi Devi—revered by the Yazidi people of Northern Iraq. The Yazidis have endured seventy-four documented genocide attempts, yet they are often falsely labeled as “devil worshipers,” despite never committing genocide against anyone.

The Peacock Angel and Azazel are the same being. This again reflects duality—one goat to Yahweh, one to Azazel. We see this dual-brother motif across cultures: Enlil and Enki, Cain and Abel. One is labeled “bad,” the other “good,” but the truth is often more complex.

Azazel is not evil. He is deeply misunderstood.

In my understanding, Azazel—whom I usually call Tausi Devi, meaning “peacock”—is the planetary Logos, the highest governing intelligence of this planet. Just as there is a galactic hierarchy, there is a spiritual governance system for Earth.

Tausi Devi stands at the top of that hierarchy. He is not God, and he does not claim to be God. From Tausi Devi emanate six archangels, each representing a process: experience, expression, expansion, magic, metaphysics, and mysticism.

Each archangel further divides into four angels, who serve as patrons of principle—the underlying structures of experience itself. Those angels then divide again, and these beings are what we now call jinn.

The jinn began as angels.

I may have lost you there.

Oh no, I’m following you. I’m just curious how you developed this paradigm. Does it come from a particular lineage or culture, or is it a coming together of many different ideas for you?

Dr. Papa-yoni Das: It’s inspired by many different things. It’s a synthesis—and it’s also a channeling. A lot of this information has been channeled, informed by my studies. I put myself into the vibration of what I’m studying, and then additional information comes through—almost like a download—connecting everything.

My motto is: take the best, leave the rest. I draw from many systems—Sufism, Hinduism, Christianity, things you’ll find in the Bible. It’s all part of the weave.

So, to explain a bit: there are seventy-two original jinn. Each governs a particular region of the world. This is how we connect with our jinn family and, through them, with the angels.

What’s your ethnicity?

Geez—I mean, I’m as white as it gets. Probably Germany, Europe. That’s my guess.

Dr. Papa-yoni Das: There’s no such thing as “white,” but okay—German. That’s helpful. So there’s a lot of magic there. You would fall under the archangel of magic, which is Raziel.

Under that archangel are four angels representing principles. I won’t go too deep into that right now, but once you go further into specific regions of Europe, those regions carry particular energetic aspects that correspond to specific jinn.

Through your DNA, you carry particular jinn with you. They interact with you. They empower you to do certain things in this world. Manifestation, for example, is a big theme for you.

Let me give a brief overview of the archangels. Africa is the continent of experience—it’s the root, the cradle of civilization. From there, humanity migrated into Asia, which is the continent of expression. The archangel of expression governs that domain.

From Asia, humanity migrated into Australia, which is the domain of expansion. Each continent carries an overarching process that empowers the people of that land. These names, by the way, have Kurdish roots—shir means magic.

As you go deeper—east, west, north, south within a continent—and then into specific regions, the corresponding jinn influence what people are naturally inclined toward.

Take Europe, for example. Raziel, the archangel of magic, governs Europe. Magic is about affecting change in the external world. That’s different from metaphysics, which is more inward—working with ideas, dreams, and subtle energies.

Magic makes those subtle energies visible. It turns ideas into form. Europeans, historically, have been very effective at this—setting up systems, structures, and institutions across the world. That’s an expression of magic. It hasn’t always been done ethically, but it is an expression of that energetic process.

So, daily, what does it look like for you to work with your jinn practically?

Dr. Papa-yoni Das: I meditate. I chant mantras using the names of particular jinn. I rotate them, because I’m of mixed ethnicity and I work with several jinn families.

I work with the jinn of West Africa, connected to my lineage there. I also work with Jinn of Scandinavia—my grandfather on my mother’s side was largely Scandinavian. If I need more magic or manifestation energy, I’ll work with those jinn. If I need to process trauma or deepen experience, I’ll work with the West African ones.

I also have access to the jinn of North America, which are associated with metaphysics, and South America, which is associated with mysticism. Being born in Gary, Indiana, and living in the U.S., I naturally have access to the jinn of this land as well.

In practice, I chant mantras, make offerings, and remain consciously aware of their presence. They’re always around us. We may not see them, but they’re there.

They influence the processes of our bodies. People often say that breathing unconsciously or the heart beating on its own proves God exists. But God doesn’t do that directly. God has intermediaries. The jinn are closest to us.

They are the bridge between humans and angels. Archangels are even further removed. Working with the jinn is one of the most powerful things you can do because they are our closest neighbors. They affect us directly.

If angels want to intervene, they usually go through the jinn—unless you need a very intense wake-up call. And typically, you don’t want that. Angelic intervention is not subtle.

Have you experienced angelic intervention? You know what that feels like?

Dr. Papa-yoni Das: Yes—I have. And not just angelic, but archangelic intervention. That’s why I always say: don’t try to jump too high.

Serve. Be a servant to the lowest of servants. Serve your fellow human—not in a self-serving way, but genuinely. Serve the jinn. God doesn’t want us trying to leap too far, too fast.

And this opens into a whole other layer of understanding. Tausi Devi—Melek Taus—is not God. Azazel is not God. There is a God above Azazel, known by the Yazidis as Xwede—the self-created Creator.

Xwede created the Peacock Angel. And Xwede—she—is completely removed from earthly affairs. She has nothing to do with what happens on this planet. Governance of Earth has been handed over to its spiritual administration. She exists beyond that, in the cosmos, doing her own work.

The question that’s coming to me most strongly is this: why do you do what you do? What drives you? What motivates you?

Dr. Papa-yoni Das: I do what I do because I want people to gain spiritual sovereignty.

I want people to take responsibility for how they evolve—how they ascend. Expansion is always happening. That’s one of the core processes. The question isn’t whether you’re expanding, but how: in a favorable way or an unfavorable one.

When people understand these processes—the underlying principles and practices—that’s why we call the jinn the patrons of practice—they become active. Conscious. Intentional.

When people begin living this way, their lives become more curated. Things don’t just randomly happen to them anymore. Of course, there will always be grace and mystery. But they’re actively manifesting the lives they want because they understand the energies they’re working with.

It sounds like spiritual sovereignty is a huge emphasis for you—embracing the power to create your own life and experience spirituality in a way that isn’t programmed or inherited, but consciously chosen.

Dr. Papa-yoni Das: Absolutely. You have to have your own connection. Being born into a system is fine—but don’t stay confined to it. Expand. That’s the mission.

When you ask me what my mission is, it’s this: for people to come together, expand, travel, and gain new perspectives.

In my system—the Temple of the Peacock Flame—we guide people through working with the seventy-two energies so they can ultimately embody the Patron of Presence within themselves. It’s a process. You work with each energy, each perspective. We actively promote the mixing of viewpoints.

And honestly, it’s strange—when you step back and look at humanity—to see how divided we still are. It shows how young we are as a civilization.

Africa is the land of darker people. Europe is the land of lighter people. I try not to say “black” and “white,” but the division itself is revealing. It shows that we haven’t fully embraced love yet—and that’s holding back our planetary ascension.

People talk about extraterrestrials, disclosure, and becoming part of a galactic family. Unity is a prerequisite for that. We have to come together in love.

When there are calculated efforts to divide people, to harm others over differences, that’s a problem. We cannot remain attached to rigid identities. We have to surrender them.

The future doesn’t look like these isolated pockets of humanity. We’re evolving into something more blended—more unified. And people are afraid of that. That fear fuels systems like racism and division.

I don’t want to go too deep into politics here—but ultimately, I think we can all agree on this: we have to unite in love.

If we’re not doing that, then something is fundamentally wrong.

Without a doubt. Tell me—where can people connect with you online? I know you sell your thingamajigs online. Do you also do readings online, or only at Savannah Rocks?

Dr. Papa-yoni Das: Mostly at Savannah Rocks, but people can contact me directly, and I do offer tarot readings over webcam. The best way to reach me is through my website–AzazelOutreach.org or .com will also bring you to my site.

You really should start doing more online readings—people need your magic through video. They’d love that.

Dr. Papa-yoni Das: Yeah, technology is something I need to get more comfortable with. I don’t want to get left behind, David—help me out.

Absolutely. Just use Zoom. People all over the world would love to connect with you. Papa-yoni, thank you so much for sharing your story—your wisdom, your system, your creativity, your essence. I’m deeply inspired by your willingness to express yourself, by how you synthesize everything you’ve studied and learned, and by your genuine desire to help people who are in need. I really appreciate you sharing all of this today.

Dr. Papa-yoni Das: Thank you so much, David. This has been really fun. I hope I didn’t go off in too many directions or confuse anyone, but I truly enjoyed the conversation. Thank you.