Sedona Soul Adventures: Transformative Retreats for Life and Love – An Interview with Debra Stangl and Richard Kepple

What if the very challenges that threaten to break you are actually the invitations that lead you home?

For Debra Stangl and Richard Kepple, the path to love, purpose, and soul alignment was anything but simple. Debra, once a divorce attorney weighed down by unhappiness, discovered her calling when a vision of the goddess Isis urged her to leave everything behind and begin anew in Sedona. Richard, a Silicon Valley success story with fast cars, oceanfront homes, and a stroke at 46, realized that achievement meant little without spiritual alignment.

Drawn together through what seemed like chance—yet clearly orchestrated by the universe—they not only found each other, but started collaborating together on Debra’s creation, Sedona Soul Adventures, where individuals and couples release old patterns, heal deep wounds, and reconnect with their highest selves. Now they share their insights on energy, purpose, and what it means to create a truly “high vibe relationship.”

In this conversation, Debra and Richard share the miraculous moment that brought them together, how personal crises became catalysts for their awakening, and why they believe love is not about settling, but about aligning with soul-level truth. They also open up about their upcoming book, High-Vibe Relationship, and their sacred site journeys to Egypt, Peru, and Bali. Continue reading or listen in by subscribing for free on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Amazon Music, or YouTube—to discover how Debra and Richard’s story can inspire you to release the old, embrace the new, and step fully into the life and love your soul is waiting for.

I loved reading your stories of awakening, but also how you met, in your chapter for the upcoming Awakened Hearts book Volume#2. I don’t want you to tell the whole story, because I want people to read your chapter, but can you share a bit about how you two met?

Richard Kepple: Well, the short of it is that we actually met on Match.com. Yeah, unbelievable, I know. I was living in San Jose, California, and Debra was in Sedona, Arizona. There’s no way our paths would have crossed otherwise, so Match.com turned out to be the bridge.

Debra Stangl: We absolutely feel the universe brought us together. The only way we would have met was through Match, and I stayed on there for years—even though I wasn’t really finding anyone. It was the strangest thing, but now I know it was all leading me to Richard.

Okay, so who made the first move?

Richard Kepple: That was me. I had been dating in San Jose for a couple of years—wonderful women, great relationships—but nothing that went the distance. I finally sat down with my guru and his partner and did some deep self-reflection: Why am I not attracting my soulmate, the partner of my dreams?

I realized that my profile wasn’t really reflecting who I was at my core. It was about what I did, not about my inner life. So, I rewrote it to focus on my spirituality, values, and desire to give back and serve. Two weeks later, everything changed.

Debra Stangl: I remember it so clearly. I was in Santa Monica with my sister, sitting on the beach at sunset, with a glass of champagne, when I got a ping from Match. My sister glanced at the photo and said, “Oh, he’s cute.”

Now, I had a rule: no long-distance relationships. I wouldn’t even respond to anyone outside Phoenix. But then I read his profile—and it was all about his spirituality and his desire to give back. Before that rewrite, his profile had actually said, “If you don’t like hockey, need not apply.” I would have never responded!

But this time, I thought, You know what? I won’t be rude. I’ll write him back.

What I didn’t realize was that Mr. Silicon Valley had already done his homework. He’d been on the Sedona Soul Adventures website, watched my videos, and had a real sense of who I was.

He wrote me back: “I saw the seemingly insurmountable distance between us, and I just want you to know there’s someone out here who appreciates who you are and what you’re doing in the world.” My sister saw that and said, “Wow. Good answer.”

Richard Kepple: That response opened the door. We agreed to connect a few weeks later. Back then, it was Skype, and that’s where it all began—one night a week, then two, then three. It gave us space to really get to know each other deeply. We had the tools, and we weren’t shy about using them—talking about Enneagrams, spiritual practices, and other modalities we both loved.

Okay, so the big question that’s coming to my mind is—Debra, do you now like hockey?

Debra Stangl: I do like hockey.

Richard Kepple: I helped her with that.

Debra Stangl: I never thought I would like it, but I do. Oh my gosh, we’ve been to so many amazing games and watched incredible playoff series. I’m really into hockey now—who would have guessed?

I’d love to step back in time a little bit to hear your story of awakening, Debra. We’ll be back to Richard in a moment, but first, your background is that you were a divorce attorney for 20 years in Omaha, Nebraska. What was the tipping point where you realized, “This isn’t in alignment anymore, this isn’t feeling good”? What led to that?

Debra Stangl: My spiritual journey really started when my mother passed away in 1978. She was only 51 and died of cancer, full of resentment, hopeless, and helpless. That loss really shook me and became the beginning of my spiritual path.

Fast forward to 1999: everything in my life was falling apart. I hated my work as a divorce attorney—except for the part where I could actually help my clients, which felt like maybe 10% of the job. The rest was a constant cycle of fighting, arguing, and negativity. On top of that, I was in a bad marriage, I weighed over 50 pounds more than I do now, and I’d had a health crisis the year before. I could see things spiraling downhill. I was depressed and deeply unhappy.

I decided to come to Sedona for three days of rest. Instead, I ended up doing a single session with an incredible practitioner—and in that session, I had a vision of the goddess Isis. She said to me, “You either leave your law practice now, or you’re going to die, just like your mother did.”

At the time, I was the same age my mother had been when she passed. I could feel that truth: I was stuck, hopeless, and facing a choice between death and life. So I went home, spent six months closing my law practice, and then devoted the next three years to my own healing work with different practitioners in Sedona. That’s what eventually led me to move here in 2001 and start Sedona Soul Adventures in 2002, which was really built on my own transformation through those one-on-one healing experiences.

Did you become open to these different spiritual experiences before moving to Sedona, or did it all begin here?

Debra Stangl: It actually began long before. After my mother died in 1978, I picked up the book Life After Life, which opened my eyes to what happens after we pass. I also had a reading with a woman who turned out to be absolutely spot on—it blew me away.

From there, I dove into astrology, then past-life readings. In 1983, I became certified in the Silva Method of meditation, which really expanded my awareness. In the late ’80s, I trained as a breathwork practitioner. So I was always adding, always expanding what I believed and what I experienced spiritually. By the time I got to Sedona, I had already been walking this path for over two decades.

As you were having these expansive experiences in consciousness, mindfulness, and spirituality, it seems like you were feeling the disconnect between that and your daily life.

Debra Stangl: Oh, absolutely. Especially when I became a breathworker, that practice is so expansive—it takes you into an altered state of total connection, happiness, and bliss. And then the next day, I’d be back in my office dealing with two people fighting and arguing. The disconnect was pretty awful.

Can you tell me about the vision for Sedona Soul Adventures? You had been going through your own healing process for several years. You’ve mentioned creating it from your personal experiences of working one-on-one with practitioners. At what point did you realize that you wanted to create something for others, to use your gifts to build retreats? How did that vision come about for you?

Debra Stangl: It literally was a vision, David. The first time was when Isis came to me and said, “Leave your law practice now or you’re going to die.” Then, fast forward to 2001—I was in the same room, and she appeared again. This time she said, “It’s time to move to Sedona.”

And I remember saying, “For what?” My experience has been that they never show you the whole thing—they just give you the next step. I kept pleading, “No, no, don’t go away. Come back and show me what I’m supposed to be doing!”

But the truth is, if she had shown me the whole vision back then, it would have been so overwhelming and so big that I wouldn’t have been able to believe it, let alone do it. So I trusted the step I was given. She said, “Move to Sedona.”

I went home and put my house up for sale. They told me it would take six months to sell. Instead, it sold in three days. I moved to Sedona and then spent six months sitting there saying, “Okay, I did what you told me. Now what?”

Then the dreams began. In the dreams, they showed me exactly what had healed me—working one-on-one, in private, with these amazing practitioners. Not big workshops, not group retreats, not just reading books or doing therapy. It was the private work that had completely transformed me.

They showed me how to take what had taken me three years and condense it into three or four days. That was the birth of Sedona Soul Adventures. I started with ten practitioners I had personally worked with over the years. Now, 23 years later, we have more than 50. It’s grown into something extraordinary—something I could never have imagined back then.

Amazing. I’d like to delve deeper into the very first retreat in just a moment. But first, I’d love to go back in time and hear your story, Richard, because you were simultaneously on your own journey. So, before meeting Debra—besides your obsession with hockey—what else was life like for you?

Richard Kepple: Well, I was only on four adult hockey teams at the time—but who’s counting, right?

When I first graduated from school, I went straight into high tech and got myself stationed overseas. I lived in Singapore, Japan, and the Philippines. As a single man, it was an incredible experience. I did great work, then returned to Texas, my home base, before being sent out to Silicon Valley in the late ’80s.

That’s where I really hit my stride. I did amazing work and, in a sense, became a rock star within my company. I started in big corporations, then moved into smaller ones. My first private company went public. I worked in later-stage public companies, bought companies, sold companies—I was on the fast track.

I had everything: multiple houses, including one overlooking the Pacific Ocean, fast cars, a marriage, and a lifestyle. Everything looked perfect on the outside. But inside, there was this little voice saying, “This is all fine, this is good, you’re kicking ass, but is this really what you want to do?”

I ignored it because the ride was intoxicating—the adrenaline, the rush, the headiness of success. Until one night, sitting in the hot tub at that house overlooking the ocean—bam. I had a stroke. It was like my guides finally said, “If you can’t sort this out yourself, we’ll give you the proverbial two-by-four to the back of the head.” And that’s exactly what it was.

How old were you at the time?

Richard Kepple: Forty-six. I ended up in the Stanford Stroke Center, surrounded by other stroke patients. The doctors looked at me—hockey body, fit as ever, I had literally played hockey that night—and they were baffled. “How could you possibly have a stroke? You’re in perfect shape. You could outrun anyone in here.”

The answer was simple: it wasn’t about my physical body. It had nothing to do with health—it was because I was out of alignment with my soul’s purpose. That stroke was my wake-up call.

After a couple of years of healing—with incredible help—I began to transition into giving back. I started teaching at the university level, mentoring college students, and finding fulfillment in service. Twelve years later, of course, I met Debra—and the rest is history.

And meanwhile, you were also diving into spirituality, Richard.

Richard Kepple: Right. I grew up Catholic—I was even an altar boy. In an Irish Catholic family, the oldest son was expected to become a priest, so I was on that track. I studied Latin for four years in high school and even attended seminary one summer before my senior year. That’s when I realized, this probably isn’t my gig.

But spirituality was always there underneath. I wasn’t drawn to the dogma as much as the mystical aspect—that sense of divinity being within me, within everyone. After my stroke, I reconnected with that inner mystic. I divorced, and I immersed myself in study and practice.

I read Renard’s The Disappearance of the Universe and Joel Goldsmith’s The Infinite Way Letters. I trained in various modalities, including breathwork, silent retreats with Jack Kornfield, retreats with Ram Dass, Donna Eden, and Dr. Joe Dispenza. I had all these amazing experiences. It was a gradual unfolding that brought me back into alignment with myself—and prepared me to meet a woman as incredible as Debra.

That’s what even allowed me to change my Match.com profile. It was the introspection to say, “You know what? The problem isn’t out there. It’s me.” Once I aligned with my purpose, everything shifted.

One thing that comes to my mind is this: people who invest in consciousness, mindfulness, spirituality—through therapy, retreats, different modalities—sometimes still end up in divorce. That’s part of my story, too. I was a pastor for ten years, invested so much in spiritual growth, and yet I went through a divorce. You work with couples who struggle in relationships. Why do you think this happens—that people who are growing spiritually can’t make it work with a particular partner?

Debra Stangl: I think it’s a combination of many things. My first marriage lasted 20 years. My husband was a spiritual person, and that was one of the reasons I married him—it mattered to me. For the last ten years of the marriage, I kept telling myself, “If I’m a spiritual person, I should be able to make this work.”

But finally, he was the one who left—and I’m so grateful, because energetically, we just weren’t aligned. That’s what it comes down to: energy. Richard and I are aligned. My ex and I weren’t.

After 40 years of working with couples, I can tell you: if the energies aren’t in sync, it simply won’t work. You can have unresolved trauma, karmic baggage, birth imprints—all kinds of energetic blocks. Unless you clear those, you can’t have a truly fulfilling relationship. Later, I discovered that my ex-husband and I had karmic entanglements that weren’t resolved. By contrast, Richard and I have past lives together that we’ve been able to heal, including lifetimes in Egypt. That cleared the karmic debris and allowed us to align.

The real danger is when people tell themselves, “I’m spiritual, so I should be able to make this work.” If you’re forcing it for five, ten years, something deeper is going on. Sometimes your season with that person has ended. Sometimes the universe is asking you to move forward into a relationship that brings true joy.

For us, it’s been beyond anything we imagined—blissful happiness, especially finding it at this stage of life. We look at each other all the time and say, “Oh my God, how did this happen?”

Richard Kepple: And the truth is, by the time you’re a certain age, people are often pretty set in their ways. We both had lists—Debra’s was 22 items long, mine was 10. And the thing is: don’t settle.

Why? Because if you compromise on number 21, a few years later, it’s going to be the thing that drives you crazy. If you can’t accept it now, you definitely won’t accept it ten years from now.

When you’re aligned energetically, you’re not settling. You’ve done your own work, raised your energy, and attracted someone who’s done the same. Then you both commit to not only your personal growth, but also to supporting the other person’s growth. Together, you create a third energy—the living entity of your relationship. That’s what makes it work.

Thank you for sharing that—it’s beautiful. I want to go back to Sedona Soul Adventures and the beginning of the business, which was 2002, right? As you were getting this off the ground, could you tell me about those first retreats? You’ve said these weren’t group retreats, but custom-curated experiences for individuals or couples. What were those early retreats like, and how did you even find your first clients?

Debra Stangl: Wow—those early days feel like a lifetime ago. This was 23 years ago, at the very beginning of people finding things on the Internet. There were no mobile phones, no social media—none of that. I look back and think, How did we do this?

For the first six months, I wasn’t sure it would work. I kept asking myself, How do I market this? How do I get the word out? I even called marketing agencies, and they had no idea how to handle something like this.

Then I did a reading with an amazing woman in Los Angeles. She told me, “You’re not going to attract people that way. The Internet has been developed for exactly this time—for you.” I had never heard anything like that before. But it made sense.

Every morning, I would meditate and send energy out from Sedona, visualizing it reaching the people who were meant to find us. At the same time, we began building a presence online—early Google searches, basic web listings. That’s how people started finding us.

We even worked with this being who called herself the Angel of Sedona. In the very beginning, we featured her on our website. She said, “I’m going to send you the people who are supposed to come.” And, amazingly, the right people began to arrive.

Richard Kepple: It really is quite a story.

Debra Stangl: From the beginning, what worked was spending a lot of time with people before they ever came—understanding what was going on in their lives, what they wanted to shift, and then matching them with the perfect practitioners and experiences. That system worked from day one, and it still works today.

Richard Kepple: The thing we realized is that group work, seminars, big events—those rarely address individual issues. Once in a while, they help, but not in the deep, lasting way people really need. Everyone has their own unique “gunk.” My gunk is different than Debra’s, which is different than yours, David. A one-size-fits-all approach can’t fully transform that.

Debra Stangl: Exactly. That’s why even in our couples’ retreats, each person does individual sessions. Because their “gunk” is different. The real question is: What’s the gunk? How did it happen? How is it showing up? Once we uncover that, we can design sessions to help them reconnect with the highest part of themselves—and then with that third entity, the energy of the relationship itself.

These are great questions, David. Some of this I haven’t thought about in a long time. In those early days, we were literally sending energy out into the universe—and the universe was sending us our first clients.

Tell me—what are some of the presenting challenges or problems people bring to you when they reach out? I assume most of them come through a phone call, email, or interest form. What do they say they’re struggling with? And I realize that may not be the “gunk” underneath, just the surface layer.

Richard Kepple: Oh yeah, exactly—they never call and say, “I’ve got gunk.”

For individuals, the most common theme is a lack of purpose. People are either going through a transition or they’ve reached a point where every day feels the same. Today is the same as yesterday, and tomorrow will be the same as today. That emptiness starts to creep in, and they come here seeking meaning, a way to re-energize.

Some people arrive already aware of their purpose but unable to execute on it. They’re stuck. So we help validate that their sense of purpose is true, and then we focus on clearing the gunk that’s holding them back. We sweep it out, heal it, release it—so they can go home like an energetic newborn, carrying a fresh sense of direction.

Debra Stangl: Another big one for individuals is when they’ve tried everything—therapy, energy work, different approaches—and still can’t get past a particular issue. That’s when they come to us.

For couples, the most common reason is relationship struggles. Infidelity is a huge one, but the biggest challenge we see is couples who have been together for a long time and still love each other underneath, but the spark is gone. They’re bored, fighting constantly, or looking at their partner thinking, “This isn’t the person I married.”

We especially saw this during COVID, when people were stuck at home together. So many couples came to us saying, “I love them, but if we don’t figure this out, I’m out of here.” That loss of sizzle, that disconnection, is usually just another form of gunk—disconnection from themselves and from each other.

Richard Kepple: Exactly.

Debra Stangl: And then we also have my favorite clients—individuals and couples who don’t have big problems. They simply want to take their life or relationship to the next level. They’ll say, “I’m good, but I know it could be 10 or 20 percent better.”

Richard Kepple: Supercharge me, baby!

Debra Stangl: We love that work—it’s so much fun. But of course, most people who reach out are in trouble, and we love helping them too. It’s interesting for me personally—after 20 years of divorcing people as an attorney, I’ve now spent over 20 years helping them stay together in wonderful, juicy ways. Hopefully, that’s balancing my karma.

You mentioned earlier that you spend a lot of time with people before they come to Sedona for a retreat. Walk us through the step-by-step process. If I were to reach out and say, “I’m interested in a personalized retreat,” whether as an individual or a couple, what would I experience from beginning to end?

Debra Stangl: What happens most often is that people initially think we’re a traditional retreat center—where you go somewhere nice, drink green juice, and do yoga. And while there’s nothing wrong with that—I love those kinds of retreats myself—that’s not what we do.

Richard Kepple: We go deeper than that.

Debra Stangl: Exactly. What we offer is truly transformational. It’s about taking you from where you are to where you want to be. And that process begins when we connect you with one of our Soul Guides.

I was the original Soul Guide, but now we have an incredible team. They spend a lot of time with people—usually on Zoom—because it’s important to start that energetic connection as soon as possible. With couples, we talk to each partner separately at first, so both can share freely.

Richard Kepple: Because, as you can imagine, there’s always a story. Each individual has their own story. The role of the Soul Guide is to go beneath that story—intuitively detect what’s really happening—so we can match people with the exact resources and practitioners they need.

Debra Stangl: Our Soul Guides are deeply intuitive. They’ve experienced the work themselves, so they know how to ask the right questions. After these conversations, they take time—often in meditation—to connect with the client’s energy and then put together personalized recommendations.

For individuals, retreats are a minimum of three full days. For couples, a minimum of four. Most people stay for about a week, which is ideal, because it gives them time not only for sessions but also to experience the beauty of Sedona.

We’re not a retreat center—you don’t stay with us. Sedona is small, with just 9,500 people and one main road. That makes privacy a huge benefit. When clients arrive, they come to our office in West Sedona for an orientation session. They’re also connected with a retreat coordinator, who checks in daily and ensures everything runs smoothly.

From there, clients go to the private spaces of our practitioners. That’s one of the most special aspects of Sedona Soul Adventures. Each practitioner works in a space infused with their energy and intention. Some are situated in stunning locations with breathtaking views, while others are in more intimate settings; however, all are deeply private.

Richard Kepple: And that privacy is important. In group settings, people may feel uncomfortable—imagine being next door to someone screaming and crying during breathwork. You might think, “I don’t need to hear this.”

Debra Stangl: Or walking out of a session with mascara running down your face while strangers are milling about.

Richard Kepple: Exactly. Privacy creates safety. And what makes it even more powerful is the caliber of practitioners we work with. Many of them have been in Sedona for decades, some even since the Harmonic Convergence. They are truly the masters of the masters, and we’re honored to have them as part of our team.

A couple of practical questions: Where do people stay when they come for a retreat, and how many practitioners do they typically see in a day?

Debra Stangl: Guests usually see one or two practitioners per day—something in the morning, then time for lunch and integration, and another session in the afternoon. We want the pace to feel spacious, never rushed.

One of the wonderful things about customizing is that everyone wants something different when it comes to lodging. Some people want the lap of luxury, others just want a clean, simple room. Some want a kitchen so they can make their own juices or meals.

Because Sedona attracts over four million visitors a year, we actually have more hotel beds than residents. So the options are incredible—fabulous resorts, boutique hotels, Airbnbs. We have a network of approximately 20 recommended partners, allowing each client to have exactly the type of surroundings they prefer.

And after those three, four, or five days—after experiencing one or two practitioners daily, supported by a retreat coordinator—how do people integrate all of it? Where’s the landing place for everything they’ve just experienced?

Debra Stangl: Integration is absolutely key.

As part of the retreat, every client is assigned a coach—a Soul Coach. These aren’t just certified coaches, but coaches who have been trained with us and are deeply intuitive, able to hold space for genuine transformation.

The process begins a day or two before the retreat with a focused intention-setting call with the Soul Coach. Then, within 24 to 48 hours after returning home, clients participate in an integration session where they process what happened, share their key takeaways and insights, and set intentions for the coming year.

Beyond that, they have a minimum of two ongoing integration calls via Zoom, and many stay in our aftercare program for a year or more. We know a Soul Adventure is a pattern interrupt—and we want to make sure people don’t just slip back into their old patterns and old life. Our aftercare helps them continue to grow and deepen.

Richard Kepple: Exactly. When people leave, they also leave with practical tools that are unique to their journey—things they can do daily or weekly. The Soul Coach becomes an accountability partner, checking in: “Did you do your breathwork? Did you meditate? Did you take that walk together?”

It’s especially important a month after a retreat. At first, couples or individuals go home on a high, but then life creeps back in. Everyone hits that dip—it’s natural. That’s when our coaches are right there to catch them before they do a full face-plant. They remind them of the tools, reconnect them to the experience they had in Sedona, and help them rise again.

That’s what pattern interrupt really means—breaking the old cycles again and again until a new way of being takes root.

Debra Stangl: The ongoing work is just so incredibly important. That’s what makes the transformation last.

Talk to me about some of the results you’ve seen. You’ve been doing this work for over 20 years. Share some of the success stories of individuals or couples—help me hear what transformation looks like.

Debra Stangl: I have to tell you, the things that happen here are absolutely miraculous. Even after 23 years, I’m still amazed.

Couples come to us having already filed for divorce, sometimes actively in conflict. There are times I’ve met people at the beginning of a retreat and thought, “Oh my God, this one isn’t going to work.”

Richard Kepple: And yet, 99% of the time, it does.

Debra Stangl: Truly, our success rate is around 95%. The times it doesn’t work are usually when someone didn’t actually want to be here and got dragged along. But when both people are engaged—even if they’re angry, hurt, or feeling like they’ve fallen out of love—we’ve seen it transform. Many end up having recommitment ceremonies here in Sedona before they go home.

And it’s not just couples. Individuals arrive in despair—like I was years ago—feeling their life is nowhere close to what they want. Once we help them move past the gunk and reconnect with their highest self, they find their purpose, passion, and spark again.

We’ve had people say, “I can’t get along with my boss, do I need to quit my job?” After their retreat, they return to work—and suddenly their boss greets them with, “Welcome back, we’ve missed you.” The shift in energy is so palpable that coworkers can notice it. We get referrals all the time from colleagues who say, “Whatever happened to her, I want that too.”

Richard Kepple: I remember one woman who came without her husband. He refused to join. She did her own healing work here, releasing her patterns of nitpicking and resentment. When she went home, her husband started doing the laundry and the dishes—without her asking. The energy shift in her changed the entire dynamic of their marriage.

Debra Stangl: One of the most powerful stories involved a couple married for 20 years. The husband had always promised he would never cheat—his own father had cheated, and it destroyed his family. But after two decades of constant criticism at home and never receiving the kind of nurturing he needed, he had an affair with a coworker.

When they came to us, the wife was adamant about a divorce. Through our process, we uncovered his nurturing codes—unique needs based on birth information. His top needs were words of praise and gifts. For 20 years, his wife had criticized him instead of praising him, and because he had once said he didn’t care about gifts, she never gave them. Meanwhile, his coworker was praising him constantly and giving thoughtful gifts—nothing expensive, just meaningful.

When his wife finally understood that the affair wasn’t about sex or ego—it was about 20 years of unmet nurturing needs—something inside her melted. She recognized her own perfectionism and the wounds it had caused. Together, they shifted the dynamic completely.

Richard Kepple: The process leads to what we call a spiritual pivot. It’s a simple but profound yes-or-no question: “Will you give your partner what they need, in the way they need it?”

At first, she said, “Hell no.” But that opened the door to deeper work. Eventually, both of them chose yes—and they recommitted their marriage with a ceremony in the red rocks before they left Sedona.

Debra Stangl: Those are the kinds of moments that keep us doing this work. Watching people reclaim love, purpose, and joy—it never stops being miraculous.

Obviously, to receive this kind of investment in someone’s life requires a financial investment. I would assume the cost depends on the number and types of practitioners, as well as the location where someone stays, among other factors. But what would you say to couples or individuals who think, “We just can’t afford it, it’s probably too expensive”?

Debra Stangl: I’d say—have you looked at how expensive divorce is?

You would know.

Richard Kepple: Yeah, a little bit of an expert here.

Debra Stangl: Truly—just Google it. In the 20 years since I left the field of divorce law, the financial costs have skyrocketed. And it’s not just the cost of legal fees. Divorce financially devastates both partners—especially women, who statistically in the U.S. rarely recover. You’re splitting your assets in half and then dealing with the ripple effects for years to come.

But beyond the financial cost, there’s the emotional one. The heartbreak of tearing a family apart, the toll on children, the pain of knowing your kids may one day be raised by someone else if your ex remarries. So many of the individuals who come to us are children of divorce, still carrying wounds decades later.

So when people say, “I can’t afford a retreat,” I remind them: the cost of what we do here is so much less—financially, emotionally, spiritually—than the cost of living in misery or going through a divorce. Unhappiness affects everything: your health, your wealth, your well-being.

I know this personally. The year before I came to Sedona, I was so deeply unhappy that doctors found a lump in my breast. Thankfully, it wasn’t serious—but it was a wake-up call. Just like Richard’s stroke. These crises are the universe saying, “Look at the real cost of not living in alignment.”

Investing in transformation is investing in your happiness, your expansion, and your ability to fully show up in the world.

Thank you for sharing. You’ve co-authored a book coming out at the end of this year called High-Vibe Relationship. You’ve mentioned the nurturing codes earlier, but tell me: who is this book for, and what will readers get from it?

Richard Kepple: The book is for both couples and individuals who want to experience what we call a “high vibe relationship.” We share insights from Sedona Soul Adventures and the practices we’ve used for decades.

There are three key points. First: take personal responsibility. You have to take ownership of your own journey and do the work to raise your vibration—whatever modalities you choose. That’s what allows you to attract someone aligned with you.

Debra Stangl: And clear your own gunk.

Richard Kepple: Exactly. The second key is understanding that a relationship is a crucible. A crucible is hot—it burns. But in that heat, transformation happens. When two people come together, they trigger each other’s core wounds. Those wounds rise to the surface—not to destroy the relationship, but to be healed. From a spiritual perspective, that’s actually a gift: your partner giving you the chance to bring your wounds into the light.

In our view, you are not broken. You are a divine being. The only “imperfect” part is the gunk—the patterns and wounds that obscure your essence. When they surface, it’s an opportunity to heal, not to blame.

That’s why we teach tools like weekly check-ins, so couples can keep the energy flowing, address things before they explode, and keep percolation low.

Ultimately, a High-Vibe Relationship is about living the divine relationship in action—supporting each other’s growth, clearing the gunk, and staying aligned in love.

Richard, I’d like to circle back on something you mentioned. On the one hand, you said you had a list of 10 things you wanted in Debra, and your advice was: don’t settle. On the other hand, you also describe relationships as a crucible—where triggers and wounds inevitably surface. So how do you tell the difference? Is something that feels “missing” really a red flag I shouldn’t settle for, or is it my own unresolved issues being triggered that I need to work through?

Richard Kepple: When people first get together, everything feels glorious. The dopamine and oxytocin are flowing—what we call puppy love. In those early stages, no core wounds are visible. And that’s by design—if you didn’t have that honeymoon phase, nobody would ever get together in the first place.

But over time, of course, the core wounds surface. That’s when the crucible begins.

Now, for me, even though I had a list of 10 things I wanted, I also had what I call red flags—clear deal-breakers. I knew I couldn’t be in a relationship with someone abusive or struggling with addiction. That was my line. I met wonderful women who shared that they were in recovery, and I had to be honest with myself: “Can I carry that burden with you?” The truth was, I couldn’t. That was me. Others might choose differently. But we all need clarity around our own non-negotiables.

Debra Stangl: And at the same time, most of what causes trouble in relationships is gunk—core wounds, traumas, fears, limiting beliefs, karmic baggage, even birth trauma. The question becomes: how do you approach it?

When I was a divorce attorney, I noticed something fascinating. I had clients who came back to me for a second and even a third divorce. And what I realized was—they were marrying the same person over and over again. Different name, same pattern.

Why? Because their wounds were coming up to be healed, but instead of asking, “What is this showing me?” they just left and repeated the cycle with someone else.

That’s what most people do. They approach relationships transactionally: “What can you do for me? What have you done for me lately?”

Richard Kepple: “What’s in it for me?”

Debra Stangl: Exactly. Instead, the question should be: “How can I nurture you? What do you need to feel nurtured?”When triggers arise, most of the time, it’s your own gunk being activated. If you can pause and ask, “Where is this leading me? What healing is being invited here?”—that’s completely different from judging, blaming, or walking away.

When you take responsibility for your own stuff and commit to nurturing your partner in the way they need to be nurtured, that’s when you move into alignment and connection.

Richard Kepple: That’s what we call the High-Vibe Relationship.

Debra, I have a quick question: Did you ever offer clients a discount on their second or third divorce? Or maybe you should’ve charged them more—the second one double, the third one triple.

Debra Stangl: (laughs) Well, by that time, I already knew the pattern. They went through the divorce in the same way they had gone through the marriage, so I knew exactly how it was going to unfold. It wasn’t more difficult—it was predictable.

And that’s the truth: we all get stuck in patterns. Unless we do something to break them, those patterns will run our lives forever.

You also have a couple of retreats coming up in Egypt in February and March. Two separate retreats, back to back, right?

Debra Stangl: Yes—but they’re not like the retreats we do in Sedona, where people work one-on-one with practitioners. These are sacred travel experiences, something I’ve loved since 1983, when I first went to Egypt.

By the way, I’m going to Egypt for the very first time this years. Mandy has been before, but she insisted I had to go, so we’re going for 10 days.

Debra Stangl: Oh my God, that’s incredible! We should talk before you go. This will be my 26th trip to Egypt. I can give you some tips.

What makes our Egypt journeys so special is not just seeing the sacred sites but experiencing their energy. We arrange private visits: two hours inside the Great Pyramid just for our group, doing ceremony and meditation; a private visit between the paws of the Sphinx, which is closed to the public; sunrise at the Isis Temple at Philae, just us in ceremony; and time in the Hathor Temple—goddess of love, beauty, and music—with two hours to ourselves.

It’s extraordinary to experience these places beyond the history books—to actually feel the energy they hold.

We also take groups to Peru every year at the solstice. And next September, I’ll be leading what I think will be my final trip to Bali. I’ve been six times already, but Richard hasn’t, and I want him to experience the incredible energy there.

So the trip in Egypt—it’s two back-to-back experiences, not just two possible dates, right?

Debra Stangl: Exactly. It’s the same trip, but we do it twice back to back because demand is so high, and we keep the groups small. That way, more people can join, and we get double the time in Egypt, too.

That’s wonderful. And I noticed you have a special guest joining you on these upcoming trips. Would you like to share about her?

Debra Stangl: Yes! Her name is Dawn Hoang. She’s an incredible energy worker, intuitive, and a channel. In 2024, she was voted the number one speaker at Mindvalley University, an extraordinary achievement given the caliber of people they feature. Richard and I have been working with her for over a year now—we actually met her in Istanbul through Vishen Lakhiani, the founder of Mindvalley.

I can’t wait to be in Egypt with her. Every time we go, we receive downloads and powerful energy shifts. For someone like Dawn, who’s never been, I can only imagine what will happen when we’re inside the Great Pyramid or at the Temple of Isis.

Richard Kepple: Another thing that makes these journeys so profound is that almost everyone who joins has a past-life connection to Egypt. Debra always says it feels like a homecoming, and it’s true. Many of the participants have even shared past lives together in Egypt, which creates this powerful energetic bubble around the group.

Not everyone feels called to Egypt—or to Peru, or Bali—but if you do, these trips are unlike anything else.

Debra Stangl: In Peru, for example, we work with Jorge Luis Delgado, a shaman I consider one of the most important teachers on the planet right now. People often tell me they feel sorry for those who travel to Peru without him, because the experience with Jorge is completely different.

Richard Kepple: He’s truly a master of the ancient wisdoms.

Debra Stangl: That’s the difference: you can go to these places, snap some photos, and say, “Oh, that’s nice.” Or you can go and deeply experience the energy. That’s what makes these journeys so transformative.

Beautiful. Thank you both for sharing so much of your wisdom and your story. What’s the next step for someone who’s interested in a Sedona Soul Adventure, your book, or one of these sacred site retreats?

Debra Stangl: The easiest thing is to go to our website: SedonaSoulAdventures.com. From there, you can connect with us directly and get all the information about Sedona retreats, the Egypt journeys, or our book, How to Have a High Vibe Relationship. That’s what this is really all about—connection.

Wonderful. You two are amazing. Thank you for the ways you’re making a difference in people’s lives. Transformation is happening because of your investment, your energy, your heart. I so appreciate what you’re doing for our planet.

Richard Kepple: And thank you, David, for creating Awakened Magazine. The name is spot on. We want to honor the incredible work you’re doing—spreading wisdom and raising consciousness. It means so much.